Who was first: distinction or Vousvoyeren? What was it meant for?

Value Quoraan, you have asked an extremely difficult question that highly scholarly professors are investigating intensive research.

Dear fellow Quoraan, will we tutoyeren each other nicely?Like even between pot and pint.

Look, at first glance, the choice between ‘ you ‘ and ‘ you ‘ seems simple.Are you my boss or Overste? Then ‘ you ‘ is appropriate. Are we friends or family of each other? Then we go jijen and Jouwen.

But… There was a time when ‘ you ‘ or even the precursor of it was the norm, namely the biblical time.Tutoyeren-Wikipedia

Quickly a smaller distance backwards.In my own elementary school time and the first years of the Lyceum, there was conjugated with ‘ thou ‘ and ‘ you ‘. Later that was suddenly-without any explanation-‘ you ‘ and ‘ you ‘. And we have just accepted that. Thou goost for sure!

In Flemish housing estates and on television, ‘ Thou ‘ are again of the party.And not only in the context of father and mother thou shalt honor.

Now that teachers get the longer the less respect, ‘ you ‘ should be best reupgraded.Like that one (Dutch) teacher on 1 September his new class spoke: ‘ My name is Janssens (not real name) and my first name is Mr. ‘

Ancient Greek, Latin and Germanic languages did not know the vousvoyeren, so strands also do not have the distinction because there was only an ordinary second-person singular.In Modern English, this use has been maintained. The Vousvoyeren has spread from France in modern languages and has been taken over everywhere else.

Modern German knows the Vousvoyeren, but it becomes as completely inappropriate experienced, parents and other family members such as great or grandmothers not to speak with “du”.The “Du” is therefore an honorary title in the family; While the Sie-form distance implies. It is the recognizing respect for this distance that requires the Sie form, not necessarily respect for the other person. One speaks therefore in German also gladly a nasty withers with “Sie”, in order to create this distance itself. For a Dutchman inimitably great scenes are in dubbed Cowboy films: “Geben Sie mir Ihren Colt, oder ich erschiesse Sie”. The “Sie” is therefore not a title of respect, but a title to surrender to the other person, which can clearly have two sides, respect for the own distance or respect for the distance to a foreign person, so someone who does not belong to the own family Belongs.Certainly also because of this two-sided side of the “Sie” it is in German completely inappropriate to speak to God or Jesus Christ with “Sie”. In No German Bible, therefore, the U-shape is used for any person.

On the other hand, the vousvoyeren that has been blown away from France is precisely about the respect of the other person, why parents or grandparents are also gevousvoyeerd.This use is also dominant in the Netherlands in the Vousvoyeren. With the you we express respect for the other person, also from the capital letter in the older writing language. It has recently become customary in the Netherlands to appeal to family members with “you”. This was above all an expression of a progressive (read also socialist) worldview. Especially in conservative Christian circles in the Netherlands, parents and certainly grandparents are still in the same case. For God, in Dutch the You form is almost blasfemic.

It is an authority relationship.I think hunter-gatherers all call each other ‘ you ‘. The ‘ U ‘ form is created by the existence of a large difference in power and possession.

How is the question meant?Formally, we begin to say “you”, only if we get to know each other better, one could go on “you”. In Germany, where one is very formal, this can not be a long time, the Dutch are going to get the mistake. Do not! Think that in France it is not much different? When I lived in Belgium, in the Sixties, parents also sometimes talked to their children with “you”, instead of “thou”.

Tutoyeren is based on the French word for You (TU).

The counterpart is Vousvoyeren (from the French word vous for you).

The exact origin of the use is difficult to determine, but I suspect it stems from the time, that the nobility still spoke French.

What was first seems impossible to invent, both terms were created at the same time, I think.

English does not know this distinction at all; The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are in it different.Hence also the loan word Tutoyeren. It is about power relations. As a child, I have addressed my parents with you, and as children we are going to rebel against it. I suspect by the stories around us, from boyfriends and girlfriends. There was a classmate who called the parents by the first name, and that was very weird; My parents come from very far, because now they don’t even want to have it anymore and my mother is just going to use her first name. “Because that’s my name! Not Mrs. Sister or so, or mommy. “

I also think that creating distance and formalizing the relationship is facilitated by the U-shape.But it is no more than that: a form. You have to talk about the content, and about behavior. In it you can steer better, but you cannot formally invoke your position or hide behind the shape. You have to make concrete why you think you don’t have to enter the dialogue: “For I am the boss”. See how far you get there;

The formal distance comes from the feudal era, with nobility, land owners, religious nobility and patricians facing the ordinary plebs: the plebejers.The working bees, the common people. The democratisation (the French Revolution and beyond) has given more and more insight that we have started to ask questions in these relations. But the industrial revolution has brought forth another nobility: the financial power concentration of those who had the means to suppress people from this dominant position; The outwashing of slavery in which people were forced to subordinate themselves to the “ruling classes”.

Man is worthless in maintaining equality, that is why democracy and the democratization of our society are of such crucial importance, and financial inequality again creates that feudal tendency that is still ingrained in all of us: selfishness, not Want to share once you have everything, put the rules to your hand to no longer play the game under which you have won your position etc.

Tutoyeren means equality and the obligation to communicate the content and from personal responsibility.Vousvayeren means inequality, cementing your position and adjusting game rules to safeguard only your own usefulness and necessity.

So distinction was there before.

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