The question is whether the “Frisians on the North Sea coast in Roman times” are the direct ancestors of both the later Frisians and the Dutch.
The sea came up at the end of Roman times, the coastline shifted and people moved to higher ground.Were those who returned from the 7th century still “Frisii” or were the land movers named after their new residential area Frisians?
Only well later, from the 10th and 11th centuries the name Hol (t) land is used, for areas around Leiden and Haarlem, which would then indicate forestry (wood land) or according to other sources on land to a ‘ hollow ‘-a ditch or watercourse (as in Schiphol or Holysloot de New language Guide.
Year 37 路 DBNL).
No, not the whole people along the North Sea coast was Friesian.Because the Romans called this Magna Frisia did not mean that it is all Friesland. Like Germania Inferior not only knew Germanic tribes.
At war in Gaul, Julius Caesar, we read, among other things, how good Julius Caesar is, but also about the tribes and peoples who lived in the current Netherlands and northern Germany.So you had the Usipetes, on the banks of the Meuse, the Bataven, in the current Holland and Utrecht, the Amsivariers on the left bank, and the Chauken on the right bank of the EMS. And of course the Frisii along the coast.
(In addition, he talks about a people along a small river in the north, probably the lime tree, but he never really makes it clear.Maybe he means the Frisians?)
So you already see that many different tribes lived in the Friesland of Rome, so 脙 漏 脙 漏 n Friesland was not there, so it is only the question whether Batavians felt just as 芒 鈧?虄Fries芒 鈧劉 as the friezes.
Another answer tells us the origins of Holland, so here I leave it.
The Friesians in Noord Holland are not Frisians.It is an amalgam of various population groups that have ended up in that area through migration. This applies to the whole of the Netherlands. In the Betuwe do not live Batavias, and Limburgers are not Limburgers.
It is probable that Hollanders will be able to feel only Dutchman by the pressure of the nationalisation process in the nineteenth century.Before that, the identity of most people went no further than their own village or city. In The nineteenth century, the central Dutch Government began to introduce symbols and institutes to emphasize the unity of the nation. That will have been a moment that Hollanders have imagined ‘ we are not Dutch, we are Dutchmen! What do we have to do with those Brabanders! ‘
In the Randstad the contact between cities was also at the level of the ordinary citizenry larger than outside the Randstad, so Hollanders would have been more aware of what Holland was, than that, for example, someone from Gelderland had an image of Gelderland.
And there were, of course, some connecting elements, such as a count or other driver.Most of the citizens in Holland will also realise who the current count was of service, or even later, who at the level of the Republic were the most important players. De Ruyter will certainly have been known in the majority of the Netherlands, and one will have the feeling that de Ruyter was on their side. And one will also have a view of the de Witt brothers far outside The Hague.
But we have to be careful to project national feelings, or feelings to a people, too much in earlier times.National consciousness is a artificially created felt. There was a lot of work done in the nineteenth century, in the whole of Europe, and this was mainly linked to one another locally.
No idea, I wasn’t there, and I don’t know if this is right.
Besides, a large part of Noord-Holland is still called West Friesland, so… there is an overlap.I come from Amsterdam, but my grandmother of fathers ‘ side was called Boonstra.
In my opinion, that whole idea of a [X nationality to “feel” is your most pure bullpoo.Your identity is not in the country, but in your language.And a little in your neighbors, which by definition almost always inhabit the same country…
… and by the way, your question is a tikkie dommig, because if you go back far enough we are all Africans, and all fish, and all single celled.Where you draw the time limit is completly random芒 鈧?娄
A sense of nationality is a fairly recent phenomenon.In Antiquity, the Middle Ages and a whole lot of early modern times what nation is not part of identity. However, people were more or less loyal to the relationship they lived in. This could be a city, a tract or a tribe.
In Merovingian times, the Frankish rulers established that in the area between the Weser and the Sincfal (the Zwin or the forerunner of the) Westerschelde the Frisian laws were golden.That is not to say that all the inhabitants were also Friesian or Friesian.
The Dutch digging generation originates from a 芒 鈧?艙Fries芒 鈧?nobly slaughtered.From the Kennemerland and the Maasmond they built the county of Holland in a number of centuries. As the last large area became after much fight West Friesland added.
A certain Dutch identity awareness began to emerge under the Burgundian dukes who were also Earl of Holland.There came a states representation in which nobles and wealthy civilians were represented. They had a vague Dutch regional awareness and common interests that sometimes collide with the Burgundian interests. Among the majority of the population, namely smallholders and workers, this realization did not exist. They probably also spoke languages or dialects other than the Middle Dutch and French of the elites.
Among the same elites, even a 芒 鈧?艗dutch芒 鈧?realization began to emerge.A realization that Holland, Brabant, Flanders, Zeeland, Hainaut, Namur, Artois and the Sticht Utrecht had common interests. This was reflected in the first States general in 1477. This still had nothing to do with nation-feeling, more with a common advocacy against far-reaching centralization and degradation of local and private privileges. A century later, this contradiction between local elites and the multi-central Burgundian-Habsburg bureaucracy would lead to the uprising and the Eighty Years ‘ War.
It was only with this rebellion that there was a more regional realization that people were going to feel Dutchman, Zeeuw or Brabander.It is precisely because that rebellion was essentially about maintaining the autonomy of the provinces in relation to the pursuit of a Dutch Unity state.
As so often, one posites a theorem that is right from no sides.