That it is not racially intended.This would make the less nuanced opponents of Zwarte Piet better aware.
Forget the swam about Germanic traditions.There is no continuous line between Germanic traditions and our Sinterklaas celebration. There is a direct line between the worship of Saint Nicholas of Myra and our Sinterklaas celebration. Germanic celebrations are anthropological fiction, with dubious roots that you have to look for in the late thirties.
Zwarte Piet in its present form originated in the middle of the nineteenth century.The figure was coined by a writer, Jan Schenkman, who gave this black servant his shape in the way in which black people were depicted in this culturally less delicate time.
Here too, we have to say: people had a certain picture of black people, and there was no thought about whether that image could be realistic, stigmatising or otherwise a wrong message.The way in which black people were depicted has always had a racist undertone until far into the twentieth century.
Another example is Sjimmie of Sjors and Sjimmie, who in the pre-Eppo time actually had more or less the same stereotypical characteristics as the black Piet.You can also read old Suske and Wiskes and Tintin albums if you want to have a picture.
The elaboration of how we imagine Piet, and stepping up is without a more racist experience for black people.However, the intent is not.
Unfortunately, the discussion is so extremely polarized because the extremes in our black-and-white discussion refuse to understand each other and continually seek apologetic explanations to not listen to the other side.
If you want to hear the opinion of a 25 year old born and raised in the Netherlands (called mixed racial), then it comes:
As a little girl I have certainly celebrated Sinterklaas with my dear parents.Did I ever have the idea that Zwarte Piet should be compared to a dark person? Certainly not. I found black Piet scary, but that got more by his bonk on the door and by the pushy handing out of candy.
Even though my Asian father looked up from our tradition, he did join the greed of our country.Perhaps he also liked to fool our children. A kind of national prank.
When I followed a study on higher education, I had to delve into other cultures, read many books, and I came into contact with people from different cultures.There were also many exchange students with me in the classroom. I think the Blacks Pieten discussion then really erupts.
I was very startled by myself.I always had so little deepened in our tradition and had shown so little interest to and to people who could not find it with tradition. Some points:
‘ Zwarte Piet is just tradition and that must remain so ‘: traditions make the culture, I always think.Let’s face it, the Netherlands already has not so many traditions to write home so I understand that some are very clinging to Sinterklaas. In my opinion, traditions are beautiful if they serve an entire country. And what makes everyone feel comfortable.
The Netherlands is changing.We are no longer so homogeneous. There are more and more different people. Amsterdam is 50% allochtoon. These are also Dutch. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not. These people are also part of our society. Here societal changes originate.
Traditions are fun until a large group feels hurt.Traditions are also there to be broken. Slavery was once also tradition. Moving insight and education has ensured that we no longer allow it.
‘ It’s a children’s party, children find black Piet not racist ‘: Yes because children can decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong;) No so.Children learn from their parents. They are the parents who have given the children what they find right or wrong. Children are indeed very innocent and will often not lay the association with dark people. However, this is the case. Let us, as adults, also give a good example to our children.
‘ Zwarte Piet is black because he came out of the chimney ‘: So In the chimney there is also a hairdresser?And a make up artist? One that gives the hairs an afro hairstyle and the other who attracts equally red tabs and round earring rings? Striking that you are completely black when you come out of the chimney, and not just have a few specks.
Oh and some of the lyrics of the Sinterklaas songs?‘ Eventhough I’m black as a soot I think it’s okay ‘.
People, I don’t have to be dark to find black Piet offensive.That it does not touch you does not mean that it does not touch another. Every person deserves equal respect.
The point is, when a group indicates to feel insulted, you must respect it as a fact.You can’t deny it. This is also called emotional intelligence. Learn to be more empathic to each other.
What exactly is so difficult about a small change?Just 1 brown stain or a wipe instead of all black face painting. No Afro hair But just leave your own hair. Will children become confused? No Joh. Give the kids more credit. Children are not crazy, not as crazy as we adults at least. Children can really appreciate it if the adults show a little more social cultural awareness.
Let us also give a good picture of the foreign country.For a documentary, two people dressed as a black Piet went to England. They were almost beaten together. In America, Blackface is forbidden (written/unwritten right).
As a summary: No I don’t think anyone who is for Black Piet is a racist. And yes I think it has to do with advancing insight and closer search to each other.Sinterklaas can also be fun with a Piet who has brown sweeping on his face? As long as the kids get a gift, they find everything just fine. After all, it is a children’s party;) * sarcasm *
Sinterklaas may continue to exist, but with some minor changes around Zwarte Piet.
And what are some anyway sweet huh:
No, we are heartening in this country for dark people:
If you do not agree with me, it may be.
Please come up with arguments. Do not sweat.
Is it a racist caricature?Yes
Should he change this alone?Yes
That tradition is not racially intended.
Racism has only arisen through current reflexion.
I do not think so, but I do see why another one thinks so.
But I find it racist when dark people are made out for black Piet.If you want to prove that there is nothing wrong mer Zwarte Piet, you should not let the dark opponents go out calling for 芒 鈧?艙zeurpieten芒 鈧?or other racist behavior. The whole dicussion has started because Quincy Gario芒 鈧劉 s mother was called out for 芒 鈧?艙zwarte piet芒 鈧? Instead of burning that man right away as a zeikerd and simply demanding that his freedom of expression be diminished 芒 鈧?艙for the chilen芒 鈧?(aka I cannot contradict), one should show understanding for his situation and really need racism Addressing.
Maarja, just keep screaming.
My solution is very simple: the Government has no role to play.Everyone can see for themselves how and whether they celebrate Sinterklaas. The government has no traditions to impose. So no government-paid Sinterklaas journal anymore (I’m for privatization of the NPO in the whole) and no Sinterklaas at school. Everyone can figure this out for themselves. No ban on black Piet, but we are not going to push traditions by everyone, because a part of the population is so hypersensitive in order to impose their interpretation of Dutch culture on everyone. Traditions come and go and it is not up to the government to preserve them nor change them.
The entire Sinterklaas tradition has been regularly revised over time and has provided new appearances.
At one point it was a good idea to give Sinterklaas a somewhat more exotic look and thus came to a black helper (because people who had a skin color of themselves did not see you or barely).
The steamboat also belonged to this.
So the Sinterklaas tradition has been invented several times and is subject to time as a cultural expression.We can work with that.
The question of whether Black Piet is racist is the wrong question to ask.
The current fuss over whether Black Piet is racist is primarily meant to make people angry and not really helpful in reducing racism in society.
I fully understand that people who already have a skin color in the direction of that of the Black Piet character do not feel good when they are addressed as that character while they are just working with their lives.That has to change! Agree. Of course.
So the appearance of Piet adapting to modern times is a good approach!
But as it is filled in the Contra mine and evoking that Black Piet is racist and therefore more than 10 million people are racists and that they have to stop there immediately is no way to actually get that change.With these means you create a counter-movement and do not get your goal. So what do you want to accomplish if you are doing this way?
Against question: is Pierrot racist?
Personally, Zwarte Piet bothers me less than Sint Niklaas.Lying to your child, morally obliged because the others do it too and otherwise you ruin it for the other children. A saint who is also degraded and children who have really all been naughty and hear that even the almighty saint either clenched an eye or is not so well aware.
Helped by his black servant (black because from a region where you found white and some darker people) then the good cop/bad cop routine.
I had long resigned myself-as a liberal-with all the Catholic parades and now the broadcast of the Mass on TV, because it works in Belgium: we give each other a pleasure.As long as you don’t wake me up with chimes, you can sit down in the church on Sunday morning. If you go fishing, don’t wake the others.
Religious symbols and relying on religion to enforce all sorts of things we have known and rejected in the years 60. The Pope did not wish any contraceptives, no gays, no euthanasia… Also if you are not faithful.Logically, a lot of people ignored this. The state was completely separated from the church. So no recommendation letters from Uncle Pater, no preference because you have the right party card in pocket etc… Civil servants must be neutral and can be addressed to them. The official education is an independent pillar for when you want to be educated non-Catholic or Jewish. A Life-reflection box is provided. But laws were voted in spite of protest.
And now there are people-from all corners of the world-who rely on religious morality to impose things.If Flemings feel sacrificed because someone bears a religious symbol (gusset, headscarf, religious dagger) in a public service or even at the reception at a company is strangely looked up. But why can’t we ask for respect for the separation of church and state. And when that foreign teacher wanted to step up the Bible as a historical reference, I found it: that is a religious book that has nothing to do with education.
That some bother with the execution of the originally given black Piet I can income: the occurrence of black Piet is no longer this time.In the meantime I have seen black female piites. It can be adjusted. But there is a historical background to the tradition.
Which is also disturbing: the attitude with which some want to discard history or the original.Tintin, Suske and Wiske must be adapted or banned. Texts and names were so mutilated to appeal to a Dutch public. Lucky Luke now chews on a straw instead of smoking a cigarette (for the American market). Or He drinks cola. That is only sacred Schennis.
Leopold II was very cruel in Africa, but I would like to let my children know.I am advocating at least retaining the original statues and editions of books. Even if a picture is racist.
An explanation is in place, and of course new stories must be purified from all racism, but can it still be known what one used to be normal?
It is a pointless discussion where nobody is willing to change their mind.Of course it is racist, what is racism if that is not racist? But proponents of Zwarte Piet do not admit that 芒 鈧?艙so we meant it isn’t mean as something you say afterwards, not while you continue to give other people (while you know very well) an annoying feeling in an old tradition.